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Abu Hurairah or Paul?

بِسْمِ اللَّـهِ الرَّحْمَـٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ

Perhaps you have heard of the name "Paul”(spelling?). There was a Paul as the disciple of Jesus. But this famous Paul is not that one. He is a person who (some say) did not see Jesus himself except in his dreams. He was against the christians on those days, and after a revelation in a dream, he became christian, and he became the father of todays’ christianity. Nobody asked him those days:

Where have you been my son when Jesus was on the cross?
Why do you claim that you can now expand, explain, and
defend the religion which you fought for a few years?

My point is that: He became the base of christianity and the source of revelation. Everything, then, came through him. Several rules and theology of christianity, all came through his sentences which were not in the original religion at the beginning. How many sentences, you think, caused christians to deviate from their true roots? There is a person named as Abu Hurairah whose history I will bring after a while. This man says himself:

1.113:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

There is none among the companions of the Prophet who has narrated more Hadiths than I except ‘Abdallah bin Amr (bin al-’As) who used to write them and I never did the same.

All nine volumns of Sahih Bukhari contains 7068 traditions. From these traditions, about 1100 traditions are narrated from this man, in other words, 15.56% of the whole traditions in Sahih Bukhari (almost 1/6). (I will soon give you the number of traditions narrated by Abu Hurairah in Sahih Muslim.)

As I showed on "Abu Huraira or Loui Pasteur", he contradicted himself as well as science. The following hadith is another one where he clearly narrates a hadith which is not in accordance with what Aisha and Umm Salamh narrate. If we accept that Aisha and Umm Salamh were in the house of the prophet more than any other wives, we can easily see the problem here.

{This is in page 81, in a section titled as: Is a fasting person gets up in the morning in the state of Janaba (will his fast be valid?}

This hadith is translated by the translator only up to the end of the first paragraph. He then stopped translating. However, the arabic text is still there. The rest is my own translation. If you do not want to trust me, I suggest you refer to the arabic text. In addition, I will bring you more sources for the explanation and translation I made.

3.148

Narrated Aisha and Umm Salam: At times Allah Apostle (may peace be upon him) used to get up in the morning in the state of Janaba after having sexual relations with his wives. He would then take a bath and fast.

Marwan said to Abdu-arrahman ibn Hareth: Swear to God that by (hearing) this, Abu Huraira will scream. At this time, Marwan was in Madinah.

Abu Bakr said: Abd-arrahman did not like this. Then it happened that we gathered in Dhi-Hulaifah where Abu Hurairah had a piece of earth. Abd-arrahman told Abu Hurairah: I am telling you this, and if Marwan did not ask me (by swear) for this, I would not have been mentioning this to you. Then he mentioned the (traditions) narrated by Aisha and Umm Salamh. He (Abu Hurairah) said: al-fadhl Ibn Abbas narrated me so and he is more knowledgeable. Hammam and Ibn Abdullah Ibn Umar narrated from Abu Hurairah that the prophet ordered for opening the sawm (and not to fast), (obviously) the first chain (from Aisha and Umm Salam) is more trustable.

The above traditions are taken from: The translation of the meaning of Sahih al-Bukhari

Arabic-English
Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan
Islamic University, Medina al-Munawwara
Kaze Publications.
1529 North Wells Street, Chicago. ILL.60610(USA)
(3rd revised, 1977)(4th revised Edition, March 1979)
Call Number(In library of Waterloo university): BP135.A124E54

From: asabati@sol.UVic.CA (ahmad)

In article elrabaa@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (M. ElRabaa) writes:

Again Kamran is spelling his misconceptions into the net ...

1) Abu-Hurirah (ra) stayed very close to the Prophet (alihi assalato wassalam) for few years, he did not go to markets

Dear Brother Muhammad, I would like to ask you the following question:

Do you know for how long Abu-Hurirah Has stayed with the Prophet?

The answer is found in the following sunni referances:

1. al-Milala wa al-Nihal, by iben al-Jawzia, Pub. Egypt.

2. Sirat iben Hisham, Pub. Egypt.

Abu-Hurirah became a moslem only two years before the Prophet (s.a.w) died. Therefore, How can he report some 2000 hadith in the Saheeh al-Bukhari alone, while there are olny very few hadiths are reported by Imam ‘Ali, Imam Al-Hasan,Imam al-Husayn, or Fatimah al-zahrah. How would you explain such things ? I am intrested in your objective and scientific answer supported by some referances.

Prophet (alihi assalato wassalam) almost 24 hrs a day!!!

That is why he narrated a lot of ahadith ...

2) He also narrated a lot of ahadith which he heard from other sahaba (RAA) ... sahaba were good muslims and trusted each other, so he took some ahadith from the sahaba ...

As for the example of contradiction Kamran gives, all I can say is this, go and check a fiqh book!!!
I mentioned this before several times ... to make a ruling of ahadith, you have to check fiqh books ... it is not a straight forword matter ... if someone is interested and does not have a fiqh book (like Fiqh El-sunnah) pls

Dear brother, I have The above mentioned book, Fiqh al-sunnah, by Said Sabiq, Published in Egypt. Would you kindly give me the page number so that I could look by myself.

On the other hand, since you have Fiqh al-Sunnah book please notce that when Said Sabiq (one of very respected sunni scholars and the auther of the well konwn books such as the above mentioned book) talk about some issues , he some time refer to the Shiat point of view of that issue. For example: Zawaj al-Mutah, Qanoon al-Hawal al-Shakhesaih (the Low of Marriage).Also, notice his tone when he talk about the shiat moslems or scholars!

Please, after you look at the above two chapter of the book let me know what you think.

AHMAD
UNIVERISTY OF VICTORIA
VICTORIA, BC, CANADA

From: IN%"kaamran@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.CA”5-DEC-1993 14:28:43.53

Subject: Statistical numbers

The only hadith in this article was taken from:
The translation of the meaning of Sahih al-Bukhari
Arabic-English
Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan
Islamic University, Medina al-Munawwara
Kaze Publications.
1529 North Wells Street, Chicago. ILL.60610(USA)
(3rd revised, 1977)(4th revised Edition, March 1979)
Call Number(In library of Waterloo university): BP135.A124E54

Among all sahabah and those who visited the prophet, only a few narrated MOST of the traditions inside Sehah. Their number is fewer that the number of fingers. While other traditions say that at least 1400 people were acompanied the prophet in Hudaybiyah. The Madinah itself had more than 3000 inhabitants.In the Battle of Macca (Fath-al-mobeen), more than 10,000 people were participant. In the last Hajj of the prophet, more than the same number were with the prophet. From all of these people, only a few have been mentioned inside Sehah. Some of these people, such as Abu Hurairah were converted to Islam only three years before the death of the prophet. Another, for example, is Aisha, the mother of faithful. She narrated a lot of traditions too. Let see how old she was:

5.236:

Narrated Hisham’s father:

Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married ‘Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

Some simple computations say that:

1)- The prophet engaged with Aisha one year before his movement to Madinah. (One year before Hijrah). At that time, Aisha was six years old. (Another hadith narrated by Aisha herself says that she was playing with baby-tools on those days.)

2)- The prophet married her in the SECOND year of Hijrah, when Aisha was 9 years old.

3)- Assuming that the prophet lived only 10 years after Hijrah, Aisha lived only 8 years with the prophet in her adult age.

One more point should be added that , as I will give the exact references, a female easily forgets exact wordings, or the words themselves. This is the nature of woman. Aisha did not have a superior nature of humanity too. It is normal to expect that she might have forgotten some of traditions in its true form.

Let us see some numbers now. I am going to give you some statistics about the number of traditions narrated by different people. I do not claim these numbers are accurate, since I did not count them by finger.

The only persons whose traditions are counted by me and in person is ‘Ali-Ibn-Abitaleeb and his sons. Some of traditions which are written repeatedly by Imam Bukhari are also considered in the following numbers.

As the result, you have to sometime reduce 100 from them.

Total number of traditions in 9 volumns of Bukhari: 7068

Aisha the mother of faithful: 1250 (17.68%)
Abu Hurairah: 1100 (15.56%)
Ibn-Umar, son of Umar: 1100 (15.56%)
Anas-Ibn-Malik: 900 (12.73%)
Abdullah-Ibn-Abbas: 700 (9.9%)
Jobair-Ibn-Abdullah: 275 (3.89%)
Abu-Musa-Ashari: 165 (2.33%)
Abu-Said-Al-Khedri: 130 (1.84%)
‘Ali-Ibn-Abitaleeb: 79 (1.11%)
Umar-Ibn-Khattab: 50 (0.71%)
Umm Salamh: 48 (0.68%)
Abdullah-Ibn-Masud: 45 (0.64%)
Muawiyah-Ibn-Abusofyan: 10 (0.14%)
Hasan-Ibn-’Ali: 8 (0.11%)
‘Ali-Ibn-Husayn: 6 (0.08%)
Husayn-Ibn-’Ali: 2 (0.03%)

(83% on the whole)

As you can see, there is so few traditions narrated from ‘Ali-Ibn-Abitalib, and specially his sons. I have not given other numbers for other narrators, yet. The author of this book, Imam Bukhari was living in the life time of Imam Bagher, son of ‘Ali-Ibn-Husayn, and Imam Jafar. He did not narrate ONE single hadith from them. This is when that Imam Jafar and Imam Bagher were narrating hadith from their fathers up to ‘Ali-Ibn-Abitaleeb and finally from the prophet himself. In other words, Imam Bukhari did not accept that these sons of ‘Ali-Ibn-Abitaleeb are WORTHY of narrating hadith, and he thought that they are liars.

If you look at the sources of Hadith of shiat, you will find that these people were not silent. They narrated a lot traditions from their fathers up to ‘Ali-Ibn-Abitaleeb, and finally from the prophet. Is it not interesting?

From: kaamran@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca

Subject: Abu Huraira (Part 1: A confession?)

The following hadith is not strange as far as the content of the hadith goes. At the beginning, Abu Huraira is narrating the hadith from the prophet. When people asked him whether he heard this hadith from the prophet or not, he said that he did not, and he narrated by his ownself.

1)- What I would like you to do for me is to use your keyboard and clearly partition the first hadith to two parts:
a)- The part that is spoken by the prophet, and
b)- the part that is spoken ONLY by Abu Hurairah.
2)- I would like you to clearly tell me why people asked him whether these words are spoken by the prophet. As far as my knowledge says, people asked this question only if the hadith was really strange to them, such as the traditions which are talking about future and some events which were
unbelievable for them, and is taking place these days. What was strange in this hadith, and why people asked Abu Huraira whether he is telling what he heard from the prophet or not.

3)- I would like you to clearly tell me what would have happened if people did not ask Abu Huraira whether any part of the hadith is truly spoken by the prophet or not.

4)- If people did not ask Abu Huraira whether the hadith is told by the prophet or not, apparently, people would have considered the whole hadith as the words of the prophet. The truth was, in any case, that Abu huraira said something of his own and attached some EXTRA words to a hadith narrated (perhaps) spoken by the prophet. I would like you to clearly tell me why do you trust such person who adds some words of his own to the words of the prophet.

5)- Would you kindly quote all the traditions which are narrated by Abu Huraira and accepted by Imam Bukhari and Muslim, and clearly draw a line between parts which are spoken by the prophet and the words spoken by Abu Huraira.

I really do not understand how a man allows himself to say something which has not heard from the prophet and to attach it with prophet words without even warning in advance. Or, why he tells something of his own before clearly stating at the beginning of his own words that these are his words and not the prophet?

The second example clearly shows that Abu huraira has added to what the prophet (probably) said. How about cases where nobody has reported the something is extra given by Abu Huraira?

7.268:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

"The Prophet said, ‘The best alms is that which is given when one is rich, and a giving hand is better than a taking one, and you should start first to support your dependents.’ A wife says, ‘You should either provide me with food or divorce me.’ A slave says, ‘Give me food and enjoy my service.”A son says, "Give me food; to whom do you leave me?”The people said, "O Abu Huraira! Did you hear that from Allah’s Apostle ?”He said, "No, it is from my own self."

I would like to know why Abu Huraira used to add some other places as well?

7.492:

Anas bin Malik said:

Allah’s Apostle said, "Do not make drinks in Ad-Dubba’ nor in al-Muzaffat. Abu Huraira used to add to them al-Hantam and An-Naqir.

The above hadith is taken from:

The translation of the meaning of Sahih al-Bukhari
Arabic-English
Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan
Islamic University, Medina al-Munawwara
Kaze Publications.
1529 North Wells Street, Chicago. ILL.60610(USA)
(3rd revised, 1977)(4th revised Edition, March 1979)
Call Number(In library of Waterloo university): BP135.A124E54

From: kaamran@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca

Subject: Abu Huraira (Part 2: The origin of Abu Huraira?)

Sunni brothers usually quote a few verses from Qur’an to show that the sahabah who participated in the pledge of Hudaibyia have high standard (virtue) and are considered very respectfully. Fine. I do not want to discuss the correctness of this interpretation and understanding here.

Did you know that Abu Huraira was not muslim on those days, and was not among muslims on those days, and certainly did not witness the plegdge of Hudaibyia? Yes, Abu Huraira never witnessed the plege of Hudaibyia. Abu Huraira was a Jew, became muslim on the day of Khaibar which took place one year after the pledge of Hudaibyia, and spent ONLY three years with the prophet.

1)- Abu Huraira became muslim on the day of Khaibar. This is testified by Jabir ibn Abdullah. (Second hadith)

Abu Huraira came to the Prophet during the day of Khaibar.

I do not need to emphasize this point that the battle of Khaibar took place between muslims and Jews. Abu Huraira was a Jew before he became muslim.

2)- Abu Huraira was with the prophet only three years. (He himself testifies in the first hadith.)

I enjoyed the company of Allah’s Apostle for three years

3)- Perhaps, you better know how others greeted him when he became muslim on that day.

4.789:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

I enjoyed the company of Allah’s Apostle for three years, and during the other years of my life, never was I so anxious to understand the (Prophet’s) traditions as I was during those three years. I heard him saying, beckoning with his hand in this way, "Before the Hour you will fight with people who will have hairy shoes and live in al-Bariz.”

(Sufyan, the sub-narrator once said, "And they are the people of al-Bazir.")

5.458:

Narrated Jabir bin ‘Abdullah:

That he fought in a Ghazwa towards Najd along with Allah’s Apostle and when Allah’s Apostle returned, he too, returned along with him. The time of the afternoon nap overtook them when they were in a valley full of thorny trees. Allah’s Apostle dismounted and the people dispersed amongst the thorny trees, seeking the shade of the trees.

Allah’s Apostle took shelter under a Samura tree and hung his sword on it. We slept for a while when Allah’s Apostle suddenly called us, and we went to him, to find a bedouin sitting with him. Allah’s Apostle said, "This (bedouin) took my sword out of its sheath while I was asleep. When I woke up, the naked sword was in his hand and he said to me, ‘Who can save you from me?, I replied, ‘Allah.’ Now here he is sitting.”Allah’s Apostle did not punish him (for that).

Through another group of narrators, Jabir said, "We were in the company of the Prophet (during the battle of) Dhat-ur-Riqa’, and we came across a shady tree and we left it for the Prophet (to take rest under its shade). A man from the pagans came while the Prophet’s sword was hanging on the tree. He took it out of its sheath secretly and said (to the Prophet), ‘Are you afraid of me?’ The Prophet said, ‘No.’ He said, ‘Who can save you from me?’ The Prophet said, Allah.’

The companions of the Prophet threatened him, then the Iqama for the prayer was announced and the Prophet offered a two Rakat Fear prayer with one of the two batches, and that batch went aside and he offered two Rak’a-t with the other batch. So the Prophet offered four Rakat but the people offered two Rakat only.”(The sub-narrator) Abu Bishr added, "The man was Ghaurath bin al-Harith and the battle was waged against Muharib Khasafa.”Jabir added, "We were with the Prophet at

Nakhl and he offered the Fear prayer.”Abu Huraira said, "I offered the Fear prayer with the Prophet during the Ghazwa (i.e. the battle) of Najd.”Abu Huraira came to the Prophet during the day of Khaibar.

5.544:

Narrated ‘Anbasa bin Said:
Abu Huraira came to the Prophet and asked him (for a share from the Khaibar booty). On that, one of the sons of Said bin al-’As said to him, "O Allah’s Apostle! Do not give him.”Abu Huraira then said (to the Prophet) "This is the murderer of Ibn Qauqal.”Sa’id’s son said, "How strange! A guinea pig coming from Qadum Ad-Dan!"

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle sent Aban from Medina to Najd as the commander of a Sariya. Aban and his companions came to the Prophet at Khaibar after the Prophet had conquered it, and the reins of their horses were made of the fire of date palm trees. I said, "O Allah’s Apostle! Do not give them a share of the booty.”on, that, Aban said (to me), "Strange! You suggest such a thing though you are what you are, O guinea pig coming down from the top of Ad-Dal (a lotus tree)!

"On that the Prophet said, "O Aban, sit down! “and did not give them any share.

5.545:

Narrated Said:

Aban bin Said came to the Prophet and greeted him. Abu Huraira said, "O Allah’s Apostle! This (Aban) is the murderer of the Ibn Qauqal.”(On hearing that), Aban said to Abu Huraira, "How strange your saying is! You, a guinea pig, descending from Qadum Dan, blaming me for (killing) a person whom Allah favored (with martyrdom) with my hand, and whom He forbade to degrade me with his hand.’

From: kaamran@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca

Subject: Abu Huraira (Part 3: His mental and physical conditions)

1)- After Abu Huraira became muslim, he did not have anything. He used to ask people to recite a verse of Qur’an, not because he wanted to benefit the Qur’an. He wanted the person to feel religiously close and ask Abu Huraira for a dinner or lunch. This is well known phenomena as "Comibing stomach and religion". (Or combing religion with the money, stomach, power, ... or with trivial things)

2)- Even people did not believe that such person can narrate so many traditions. {No reference now: It has been told that Abu Huraira narrated 40,000 traditions during his life time. Dinving such number of traditions to three years of his companionship will result to 36 traditions per day (!!!).

A reference I gave a few weeks ago confirms that he, himself, has confessed that nobody among the sahabah has narrated as many traditions as he did. Knowing this fact that he is the second person in rate of narrating hadith in Bukhari and Muslim, we conclude that he must have narrated more traditions than is recorded in these two books.}

In one given hadith, he, himself, has confessed that people accused him of madness.

3)- Interesting point is that there is NO single hadith narrated by others as the merit of Abu Huraira. If you search the whole Bukhari and Muslim as the merit of Abu Huraira, whatever hadith you see about his companionship with the prophet, and his so called knowledge is narretd by him ALONE. On the other hand, when you read the merit of ‘Ali-Ibn-Abitaleeb (Salman, Umar, Zubair, ...), you can see that there were different narrators to say one hadith for ‘Ali-Ibn-Abitaleeb (Or others). This does not happen with Abu Huraira at all. All the traditions like:

I was a good boy, I did this and that were narrated only by Abu Huraira. I am asking you to tell me if you accept the testimony of person in the court saying that he is a good boy.

5. 57:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The people used to say, "Abu Huraira narrates too many narrations.”In fact I used to keep close to Allah’s Apostle and was satisfied with what filled my stomach. I ate no leavened bread and dressed no decorated striped clothes, and never did a man or a woman serve me, and I often used to press my belly against gravel because of hunger, and I used to ask a man to recite a Qur’anic Verse to me although I knew it, so that he would take me to his home and feed me. And the most generous of all the people to the poor was Ja’far bin Abi Talib.

He used to take us to his home and offer us what was available therein. He would even offer us an empty folded leather container (of butter) which we would split and lick whatever was in it.

7.343:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

I used to accompany Allah’s Apostle to fill my stomach; and that was when I did not eat baked bread, nor wear silk. Neither a male nor a female slave used to serve me, and I used to bind stones over my belly and ask somebody to recite a Qur’anic Verse for me though I knew it, so that he might take me to his house and feed me. Ja’far bin Abi Talib was very kind to the poor, and he used to take us and feed us with what ever was available in his house, (and if nothing was available), he used to give us the empty (honey or butter) skin which we would tear and lick whatever was in it.

9.425:

Narrated Muhammad:

We were with Abu Huraira while he was wearing two linen garments dyed with red clay. He cleaned his nose with his garment, saying, "Bravo! Bravo! Abu Huraira is cleaning his nose with linen! There came a time when I would fall senseless between the pulpit of Allah’s Apostle and ‘Aisha’s dwelling whereupon a passerby would come and put his foot on my neck, considering me a mad man, but in fact, I had no madness, I suffered nothing but hunger."

7.287i:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Once while I was in a state of fatigue (because of severe hunger), I met ‘Umar bin al-Khattab, so I asked him to recite a verse from Allah’s Book to me. He entered his house and interpreted it to me.
(Then I went out and) after walking for a short distance, I fell on my face because of fatigue and severe hunger. Suddenly I saw Allah’s Apostle standing by my head. He said, "O Abu Huraira!”I replied, "Labbaik, O Allah’s Apostle, and Sadaik!”

Then he held me by the hand, and made me get up. Then he came to know what I was suffering from. He took me to his house, and ordered a big bowl of milk for me. I drank thereof and he said, "Drink more, O Abu Hirr!”So I drank again, whereupon he again said, "Drink more.”So I drank more till my belly became full and looked like a bowl. Afterwards I met ‘Umar and mentioned to him what had happened to me, and said to him, "Somebody, who had more right than you, O ‘Umar, took over the case. By Allah, I asked you to recite a Verse to me while I knew it better than you.”On that Umar said to me, "By Allah, if I admitted and entertained you, it would have been dearer to me than having nice red camels.

The above traditions are taken from:

The translation of the meaning of Sahih al-Bukhari
Arabic-English
Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan
Islamic University, Medina al-Munawwara
Kaze Publications.
1529 North Wells Street, Chicago. ILL.60610(USA)
(3rd revised, 1977)(4th revised Edition, March 1979)
Call Number(In library of Waterloo university): BP135.A124E54

From: imran@panix.com (Imran Anwar)

Subject: Re: Abu Huraira (Part 3: His mental and physical conditions)

Djamel has posted an attack on the posting about Abu Huraira that bears to be responded to . Djamel. If someone has superhuman abilities all of a sudden would you not be suspicious. We do not hear that Abu Huraira was a man with a super memory before he met the Prophet. Suddenly, he comes to Hazrat Muhammad (SAAS), spends three years with him and can remember everything by some magical powers.

It has nothing to do with someone trying to make people shia or sunni by questioning the baloney that Abu Huraira was spewing. This man was using his brief time with the prphet (SAAS) for personal gain and to continue to gain influence every time something came up that required an opinion he was the one who came up with some Hadees he suddenly fully remembered.

In particular he hated Aisha and it is a matter of record that he made up Hadeeth that Aisha directly contradicted. This man’s super memory came into existence after the Prophet’s death when suddenly from a PC XT type brain his mind became like a 486/33MHz with a CD-ROM built in with the entire encyclopaedia of Hadeeth. any subject, anytime, he would recall something that no one lese knew or had heard before.

Wow!

The likelihood of this man doing it for personal gain, influence, and political/social motivation is very high and we should be wary of that instead of questioning the motive of someone who raised these points.

From: kaamran@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca

Subject: Re: Abou Huraira

Article: 7885 of soc.religion.islam
From: U58369@uicvm.uic.edu

For example they ask: How could one man narrate so many hadiths?

Aysha (respected mother of believers) narrated more than Abu Huraira in Sahih Bukhari. Ibn Umar narrated the same as Abu Huraira in Bukhari. I gave all these numbers in an article titled as Statistical numbers.

I did not ask why Ayesha narrated so many hadith from the prohet. I did not ask why Ibn-Umar narrated so many hadith, or Ibn-Abbas, or others. I asked:

How a person who was with the prophet less than three years has narrated so many traditions?

The rest is ignored since you misunderstood the original question from the base.

Abu Huraira only narrated 5,374 hadiths.

Let us assume that Abu Huraira was with the prophet full three years.
5,374/3 = 1791.33 traditions per year,
1791.33/(365-11)= 5.06 traditions per day.

You tell me how? How a man did this every day? Why he was so dedicated while much more better people such as Umar, his son, Ibn Abbas and Abu Bakr did not accomplish such? (with the same density as Abu Huraira, 5 hadiths per day?)

Not to mention that Abu Huraira narrated more than any other sahabah, based on his testimony. Some say that he narrated around 40,000 traditions. Even people who were living around him on that time were surprised by this man and his narrations (based on the testimony of Abu Huraira himself.)

Another part is why such man has narrated similar traditions to old testement? (parts which were clearly rejected by islamic theology?)

From: shaun@dt.wdc.com (Shaun Astarabadi)
Subject: Re: Abu Huraira (Part 3: His mental and physical conditions)

In <2ghvfa$3nd@gap.caltech.edu> djamel@gemini.ldc.lu.se writes:

miracle for Abu Huraira to get super memory?

Now you seem to recognize your lack of knowledge. Did you know that the companion and cousin of the prophet SAAS Abdullah Ibn Abbas has got from the prophet his blessings and once sweeped his chest with his hand and prayed Allah for him saying:”Allahumma faqqihhou fiddini wa ‘allimhou min ta’ouili l kitabi”(i.e. Oh Allah give knowledge in the religion and make him interprete the book)?and by some miracle Ibn Abbas became Hibr l oumma (the imam of the nation),that was one of the miracles of the prophet SAAS. In almost the same way the prophet SAAS made a prayer once for Abu Huraira whn he complained to him his shortage in memoizing.

As you noted, Ibn Abbas (r) is recognised, even by other sahabah that he knew "taaweel”(interpretation) of the Qur’an. This is different from memorizing of it. Many people, even today, memorize the whole Qur’an, that does not mean the know the true meaning behind all that is in it. ‘Ali ibn AbiTalib (as) was another who said that there was no aya in the Qur’an that he didn’t know when it was revealed or why it was revealed and what it meant. The other Sahabah recognized this about these persons and there are (mutawatir) hadeeths supporting their knowledge.

Now, on Abu Huraira. Although no one thinks/claims that he knew "taaweel”of the Qur’an, you did not show any proof that he got his memory-powers after the prophet (sawaws) prayed for him.

I would ask you to produce the reference(s) in that regard, preferably a mention by other sahabah on these special attributes of Abu Hurairah, as opposed to him describing himself.

I would like to make a further correction, Abu Hurairah after less than three years with the prophet (sawaws), did not or avoided telling hadeeths during the periods of the first three "khulafaa al rashideen", at least. His hadeeth telling was mainly during Mu’awiya’s time and later - this is at least 30 years after the prophet.

So he kept all these 3000 +/- hadeeths in his heart without telling others about them for all this time. The proof to what I am saying is that Abu-Bakir, Omar and Uthman (r) did not allow telling and recording of hadeeths. There is a report, in it Abu Hurairah is asked if he told such hadeeth in the time of Uthman? He said that he wouldn’t dare to, and that they would have hit/spank him if he did!!

There is nothing holy about any of the personalities of the sahabah, in particular Abu Hurairah, that should prevent someone searching for the truth to investigate and re/evaluate their actions. They were human beings capable of errors at various levels, this is not to say that Allah (swt) won’t forgive their errors, if He chooses.

However, if we are to follow their act, in this life, we must be clear in conscience that they don’t deserve to be mistrusted, after studying the evidence. For if it becomes evident that they should be mistrusted, then one’s brain (a gift from Allah) would (should) direct us not to use them as a guide, particularly, in what seems suspicious.

Jews/Christians/Muslims (Part 1: Is there any similarity?)

The following was sent a few months ago. Now it is going to continue:

The sequence of articles is important because some of conclusions are not valid until the last article.

Sahih Muslim,
Rendered into English by
Abdul Hamid Siddiqi
Printed at Hafeez Press,
Sh.Muhammad Ashraf
Kashmiri Bazar, Lahore(Pakistan)

Chapter MCXII, titled as

Following the footsteps of the jews and the christians

#6448

Abu Said Alkhudri reported Allah’s messenger (May peace be upon him) as saying: You would tread the same path as was trodden by those before you inch by inch and step by step so much so that if they had entered into the hole of the lizard, you would follow them in this also. We said: Allah’s messenger, do you mean Jews and Christians (by your words)"those before you"? He said: Who else(than those two religious groups)?

#6449

This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Atab b. Yasar through another chain of transmitters.

The same hadith is given in Sahih Bukhari with a little difference of translation. Here it comes:

The translation of the meaning of Sahih al-Bukhari
Arabic-English
Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan
Islamic University, Medina al-Munawwara
Kaze Publications.
1529 North Wells Street, Chicago. ILL.60610(USA)
(3rd revised, 1977)(4th revised Edition, March 1979)

9.422:

Narrated Abu Sa’id al-Khudri:

The Prophet said, "You will follow the ways of those nations who were before you, span by span and cubit by cubit (i.e., inch by inch) so much so that even if they entered a hole of a mastigure, you would follow them.”We said, "O Allah’s Apostle! (Do you mean) the Jews and the Christians?”He said, "Whom else?"

Also shiat has narrated the similar traditions through its own reliable narrators. As I recall, you can locate such traditions in Tafaaseer under the

Sourah(84) Aayah(19)
Laterkabonna tabagan an tabagen
Sourah: ensheghagh

O.K. Let see if anybody can go through the hole of a lizard(!!??)

Since I have not seen such creature among human beings, I answer to myself that this is not possible. There is no way that even a thin man can pass through the hole of a lizard. If not, then what these traditions mean? The way that this example is given in these traditions confirms the case of impossible acts. I conclude, therefore, that if any of Jews and/or Christians have done an impossible action, the same action would be perfomed by a muslim too.

Some of you may have already been searching for these traditions since they seem very strange. Will muslim worship an idol as Jews did when they worshipped a caw figure? Will muslims kill prophets while we know that there is no prophet after Muhammad(SAS)? Then what these traditions mean? How about the miracles that Muses and Jesus performed? How about the distortion they made on their books? Will muslim change their book by their hand? Will they think that Jesus is the son of God? And thousands of these questions. One more point:

Will the sequence of events be kept in the same way?

For example, will there be Jesus after Yahya(Jashowa, I think)?

We know that it is almost impossible to imagine muslims to worship Jesus as the son of God, to worship caw instead of true God, to go for hunting on Saturday as Jews did. What I can conclude from the traditions is that the similar action will be done, but not exactly the same action. For example, it is been told that the prophet warned muslims about different interpretation of Qur’an:

You will not change anything inside of Qur’an as previously done in the bible(Torat and Enjil), but you will certainly change the meaning of aayaat(verses) of Qur’an.

To me, there is no difference between these two events. In both cases you can hardly detect the truth since you usually do not follow the original sources of the religion and you listen to others(scholars) instead of searching for yourselves. There is no difference between changing the bible and misleading people through the interpretation of the Qur’an. What I conclude is that the similar acts would be done by muslim people. They may not kill a prophet after the prophet since there is no prophet. But it is not hard to imagine that some of them may have attempted killing their best knowledgeable men (scholars,...) How about the sequence of events? Surely there is no point in these two traditions that the sequence of events will be untouched. The words"inch by inch”is interpreted inside of the hadith:

such that if one did XXXX, you will do XXXX too

As the result, the sequence of events are not kept. In other words, similar act to worshipping caw may not happen exactly in the time of the prophet as it happened in time of muses. However, it may happen at the end of time. Although Jesus will not appear as the prophet to introduce christianity, he will come at the end of times as narrated.

I summerize the conclusion I would like to make in this article:

1)- The very similar events would take place for Muslims people as they happened for Jews and Christians. In case that the act is possible, muslims MAY do the EXACT act as others did. (I will explain what I mean by "possible”in my next articles.)

2)- The sequence of events are not necessarily preserved. For some cases, this sequence MAY be maintained.

In next article, I will, insha-allah, talk about some attitiudes of present muslims which are attributed to Jews and Christians.

From: kaamran@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca

Subject: Jews/Christians/Muslims (Part 2: Hiding the Truth)

“The likeness of those who are entrusted with the Law of Moses, yet apply it not, is as the likeness of the ass carrying books”

Wretched is the likeness of folk who deny the revelations of Allah”And Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk (Qur’an 62:5)


مَثَلُ الَّذِينَ


 


حُمِّلُوا


 


التَّوْرَاةَ


 


ثُمَّ لَمْ يَحْمِلُوهَا كَمَثَلِ الْحِمَارِ يَحْمِلُ أَسْفَارًا بِئْسَ مَثَلُ الْقَوْمِ الَّذِينَ كَذَّبُوا بِآيَاتِ اللَّـهِ وَاللَّـهُ لَا يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الظَّالِمِينَ


 


﴿الجمعة: ٥﴾

In part one, I proved that there are similarities among Jews, Christians, and Muslims. The above verse is apparently about Jews. Just around and among yourselves (Muslims). Don’t you see those who close their eyes and ears and hearts and do not look at their book of Allah, and the evidences from their own book?

They prefer to deny the orders of Allah, and insist in their ignorance.

And do not mix up the truth with the falsehood, nor hide the truth while you know (it) (Qur’an 2:42)


وَلَا


 


تَلْبِسُوا


 


الْحَقَّ بِالْبَاطِلِ وَتَكْتُمُوا الْحَقَّ وَأَنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ


 


﴿البقرة: ٤٢﴾

O followers of the Book! Why do you confound the truth with the falsehood and hide the truth while you know? (Qur’an 3:71)


يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لِمَ تَلْبِسُونَ الْحَقَّ بِالْبَاطِلِ وَتَكْتُمُونَ الْحَقَّ وَأَنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ ﴿


٧١


And when Allah made a covenant with those who weregiven the Book: You shall certainly make it known to men andyou shall not hide it; but they cast it behind their backs and tooka small price for it; so evil is that which they buy”(Qur’an 3:187)


وَإِذْ أَخَذَ اللَّـهُ مِيثَاقَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ لَتُبَيِّنُنَّهُ لِلنَّاسِ وَلَا تَكْتُمُونَهُ فَنَبَذُوهُ وَرَاءَ ظُهُورِهِمْ وَاشْتَرَوْا بِهِ ثَمَنًا قَلِيلًا فَبِئْسَ مَا يَشْتَرُونَ ﴿


١٨٧


Those whom We have given the Book recognize him as they recognize their sons, and a party of them most surely conceal the truth while they know (it)”(Qur’an 2:146)


الَّذِينَ آتَيْنَاهُمُ الْكِتَابَ يَعْرِفُونَهُ كَمَا يَعْرِفُونَ أَبْنَاءَهُمْ وَإِنَّ فَرِيقًا مِّنْهُمْ لَيَكْتُمُونَ الْحَقَّ وَهُمْ يَعْلَمُونَ ﴿


١٤٦


Surely those who conceal any part of the Book thatAllah has revealed and take for it a small price, they eat nothing but fire into their bellies, and Allah will not speak to them on the day of resurrection, nor will He purify them, and they shall have a painful chastisement”(Qur’an 2:174)


إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَكْتُمُونَ مَا أَنزَلَ اللَّـهُ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ وَيَشْتَرُونَ بِهِ ثَمَنًا قَلِيلًاۙ أُولَـٰئِكَ مَا يَأْكُلُونَ فِي بُطُونِهِمْ إِلَّا النَّارَ وَلَا يُكَلِّمُهُمُ اللَّـهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَلَا يُزَكِّيهِمْ وَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ ﴿


١٧٤


I have shown in the first part of this series that whatever has happened on Jews/Christians should happen similarly on muslims.

Although the sequence of events may not be the same (sooner or later that the event in previous nations), they would happen, not exactly but very closely.

(Of course there is another choice that the prophet of Allah has lied. Obviously, a muslim does not accept such choice at all. Better to think and learn from previous nations.)

One of behaviours of Jews/Christians is that they knew the truth and they hided it. They knew the prophet of Islam very clearly and better than their own sons, and they denied him. They knew that Allah is one and everything was revealed by islam was true and they did not inform their people of it. They kept their people in darkness in order to get a good ride on them.

Unfortunately, this story is completely happened in Islamic environment. Scholars who knew the truth tried to hide it from their people. When you say that such and such exists, people open their mouth as if a new law is fallen. The true islam is unfortunately hiden from the eyes of usuall people who have little access to the source of traditions.

Others who hear the truth and confess to it, are afraid of revealing it. It is good to warn ourselves that the promises of Allah is not a game. When he implemens his plan, he will do as severe as he can, and Allah is the hard punishing God.

From: kaamran@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca

Subject: Jews/Christians/Muslims (Part 3: Religious text books)

Another similarity among Jews/Christians/Muslims is about some of theological deviations. When you open the old testement, the first thing you read is:

And the God created humans in his image.

When you go further, you read a wrestling between this God and Jacob.

And other stuff.

You can locate in new testement that God, word and Jesus are one plus Jesus is the son of God and so on. In Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim and shiat sources (which were famous as "Israeelyyat”afterwards), you can easily locate several similarities. Although there is no wrestling between God and Jacob, there is a wrestling between Mouses and the angel of death. The first sentence of the old testement was accurately ransfered to the book of Hadith. What went wrong?

In this article, I am trying to clarify one reason for such behavior in religious text books. It is one of the narrators. In my mind, thereare too many similarities between two people of two religions, Christianity and Islam, Paul and Abu Huraira.

About 40% of the theological differences among different branches of Islam, from Sunni and Shiat to Sufism have come from the narrations of Abu Huraira. (Shiat brothers should note that I am not talking about practical differences right after the death of the prophet.) Such estimation is my personal data as a person who has read both shiat and sunni sources and others (such as Ahmadyya, and so and so).

Source for above claims: Read the articles which were sent to SRI about one month ago.

From: kaamran@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca

Subject: Re: What Muslims lack

Article: 7387 of soc.religion.islam

From: gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mercenary Programmer)

Well, I would like to have a chit-chat with a respectful man, a very thoughtful muslim named as: Basaalat ‘Ali. I would like to call him ‘Ali in my articles.

What we call Islam nowadays is a lot more than the final message to all people that was sent to us from Allah. We have added interpretations on top of interpretations of interpretations. I do not know what a.faris’ intent is in answering the article in the manner that he did.

Very nice paragraph.

Nonetheless, I do think that "Islam”needs to change. If I were you, I would have followed what you said above and would have been precise to say:

I do think that the interepretation of "Islam”needs to change.

Is Islam the Shi’a/Sunni debate? Anyone reading SRI would think so. I am sorry. People should be informed that the so called "debate”between shiat and sunni comes to net every other month, or more. As my records show, the first article on this was sent about one month ago.

That was from a Sunni himself. About a few days (or I think one week), some of Sunni people kept firing at shiat with no shame. Then Shiat started to answer these ignorant people.

It will not come to net if you moderators be careful when approving the very first article. If any revolution should be seen in SRI, it is from the moderators first, among you. it has consumed some of the finest minds of dozens of generations. This part of Islam needs to change.

What I brought to SRI was thrown away hundred years ago. Shiat simply does not care about this debate. Shiat has closed and patched this debate forever. If you think that shiats are sitting in Iran finding a better solution for this debate, you are wrong.

The present and main concern of shiat scholars in Iran is to locate sources and find the best way of handling muslim society, or islamic government, such as governmental issues, taxes, economy, and so on. They did not do that before, and they realize how ignoring about this fact they were before.

They are coming to solve the problems of present society through Islamic sources. They have simply put such "debate”to the bookshelves. The first book on the islamic government was written about 200 years ago. Look at yourself, then.

No. The simple fact is that we have allowed all this to happen to us.
It happens because of the hatred we have in our hearts.
Very nice sentence, and many more nice paragraphs.

Are we Muslims? Or are we too arrogant to learn from this? Do we have a monoploy on the faith of Islam?

The real backwardness is to live out our lives amongst our own heresies and bidaa. We have already left islam. We need to return to it.

Again, good advices. Since you are not arrogant, and learn from christians and jews faster than a muslim, I would like to bring one example for you:

I saw an interview three nights ago. It as about a group which were shaped three years ago. 75 christian scholars from all over the world gathered again, this year. The official name of this group is "Jesus Seminar Study". What they do and what they have done? They bring several different sciences such as archeology, history, phsychology, and many more. To do what?

They are reading the present new testament (which is referred in this article as Bible) sentence by sentence. They verify which sentence was spoken really by Jesus himself, and which one was spoken by his followers. How others twisted the exact word of Jesus. What do you think about the outcome of their search?

They announced that about 80% of the Bible is not from Jesus, himself, but rather from a few writters some of whom came after Jesus death. They announced that there is no single word truly spoken by Jesus which says that Jesus is the son of God. There is no single word which says that Jesus is God, or there are three Gods. The announced, also, that Jesus was one prophet himself.

Is this a backward?
Your answer: No.

How? Are they not reading the history, and the Bible and "wasting”their time on 2000 years ago?
Your answer: Yes.

How? Don’t they understand the Bible better than thousand years ago? Are you not happy with their outcomes?

That was about christians. How about Jews? Let me give you another example. Perhaps, you would understand the meaning of backward better.

About 40 years ago, a great discovery occured around the dead sea, and the findings on that area became famous as "dead sea scrolls.”One is peresently kept in Isreal musem named as "The Temple Scroll".

Although, the finding was related to Jews, it talks about a theology which matches islamic theology more than the old christianity (as some are claiming). If you read Qur’an, you will find some verses which are referring to some verses of the old teste mant. You can not find the referred verses in the present old testemant. But these Qur’anic references are found in the dead sea scrolls. One of the most important part is named "The book of Enoch". Now

Is this a backward?
Your answer: No.

How come? These people are looking at the scrolls which were written (as some claim) before the birth of Jesus.
Your answer: Yes.

How come? They have broken these contents of these scrolls piece by piece, they are understanding their book better than hundred years ago. How is this a backward?

My humble suggestion:

If muslims want to solve the present problems of islamic society, they have to analyze what others have recorded hundred years ago. Muslims have to sit and find out which narration (or Hadith) is
truely spoken by the prophet. (Obviously, Qur’an is complete, and needs no verification). But the traditions need to be differentiate.

If muslims want to solve the present problems of islamic society, they have to look at the interpretations again. See what muslims have eaten during the time. Why have muslims have accepted from their scholars, (or should I say, islamic churches?). Why muslims have trusted their scholars so much, and how muslims have been deviated because of this trust.

If muslims want to help, they have to return to Islam. As you said and I agreed with, what muslims have is not islam. What muslims believe in is not islam. Islam is over there, sitting and waiting for muslims to come and understand it. What muslims have done instead was to trust some scholars, and carry their hatred in their hearts, and fight. This is what most people inheritated from their fathers.

From: kaamran@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca

Subject: the Shi’ites and Sunnis

From gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu Mon Jan 17 15:46:22 EST 1994

Article: 7892 of soc.religion.islam

From: gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu

Basically, a small number among the Sunni believe and claim that the Shi’a are non-Muslim; a number among the Shi’a hold a somewhat similar opinion of the Sunni.

As a person who belongs to that small group of shiat, I am declaring that none of us has ever told that sunni is non-muslim.

Briefly about shiat:

Shait says that "Logic”is very important and is a part of life. As you eat, you must use the logic.

The point is not that ‘Ali-Ibn-Abitalib should have been the Caliph. That is not the case any more. It is too late to choose ‘Ali as the first Caliph after the death of the prophet since it is almost 1350
years by now. (Even if all muslims, shiat and sunni, agree right now that ‘Ali must have been the first Caliph, nothing can be done.)

The point is that the true knowledge is transferred to muslims through ‘Ali and his sons, and other sources are not as reliable as this chain. The point is to know that it is not too late to listen, think, and obey these true sources of knowledge, ‘Ali-Ibn-Abitalib and his sons.

From: kaamran@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca

Subject: Health rules in Hadith books?

I am getting closer to realize what Islam says about health of human. I strongly urge scientists to investigate the following important traditions. I hope that when they get Nobel Prize on this, share it with me (say %5 only).

I would be grateful if my sunni brothers and sisters tell me if they really benefit these islamic laws or not. Thanks a lot.

7.673:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah’s Apostle said, "If a fly falls in the vessel of any of you, let him dip all of it (into the vessel) and then throw it away, for in one of its wings there is a disease and in the other there is healing (antidote for it) i e. the treatment for that disease."

4.537:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease."

7.746:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah’s Apostle said, "None of you should walk, wearing one shoe only; he should either put on both shoes or put on no shoes whatsoever.”I understand that there might be some use not using any shoe, and more advantage using both shoes. I do not understand where ONE shoe can be applicable, and if not applicable at all, why it is mentioned anyway.

Thanks for your comments.

The traditions are taken from Sahih Bukhari:

The translation of the meaning of Sahih al-Bukhari
Arabic-English
Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan
Islamic University, Medina al-Munawwara
Kaze Publications.
1529 North Wells Street, Chicago. ILL.60610(USA)
(3rd revised, 1977)(4th revised Edition, March 1979)
Call Number(In library of Waterloo university): BP135.A124E54

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