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I have heard someone say that Sunni's are Kafir because they do Takfir of Abu Taleb AS and this is on the basis that calling a Muslim a Kafir makes one a Kafir. How can I respond?

Amina Inloes

This problem will not be solved by debating over the minutiae of whether "calling someone a kafir makes someone a kafir, so Sunnis are a kafir." Of course, you can discuss it, and it could be good to discuss it historically and religiously.

However, it is an excuse being put forward for a viewpoint, and if this excuse is disproved, another one will be presented.

The problem here is mindset, in particular,
(a) lack of understanding of the Prophetic message and how the Prophet (S) reached out to all people rather than excluding people to form an elite group,

(b) arrogance and egotism - thinking that one is part of the small, elite, saved group while everyone else is wrong floats one's ego, and is one of the subtler traps of Shaytan,

(c) a misunderstanding of the nature of Allah. Allah, as the creator of the universe, including the human being, is not so petty to kick people out of the ummah because of a handful of historical errors.

Sometimes also (d) some individiuals are benefitting from these ideologies, such as if they get followers or fans from spreading them and appealing to people's sense of clannishness.

To be fair there may also be (e) backlash against the Sunnis who call Shiis kafir and use that as an excuse for violence.

Surely we can understand that just as it is wrong for Sunnis to declare Shiis kafir, it is wrong to declare Sunnis kafir. We should treat others as we would like to be treated.

So basically these are the things that really need to addressed. A person who has humility before Allah and is not using their religious identity to bolster their own nafs or ego will not take it upon themself to decree masses of sincere people as kaafir.

Sometimes this takes time, such as years, and it won't happen in one or two sessions.

I have heard someone say that Sunni's are Kafir because they do Takfir of Abu Taleb AS and this is on the basis that calling a Muslim a Kafir makes one a Kafir. How can I respond?

Sayyed Mohammad Al-Musawi

1. Sunnis are Muslims like us and it is completely wrong to claim that they are Kafirs.

2. Sunni are following different sects e.g. Hanafi, Shafi'ee, Maliki, Hanbali, Salati, Wahabi, Sufi, Barelwi, Deobandi etc.

There are also many Sunni sub sects. All of them Muslims even those extreme groups who claim that Shia are Kafir. We believe that those who call us Kaafir are Muslims but misguided.

3. Abu Talib is a great believer in Islam and protector of the Prophet (SAWA) and this fact is been admitted by mass majority of Sunni scholars. Small minority among Sunni Muslims claim that Abu Talib was non Muslim because of the enmity against imam Ali (AS).

4. Many Sunni scholars have written books about Abu Talib and his great status in Islam e.g. Ahmad Zaini Dahlan the Imam of the Haram of Makkah.

Wassalam..

Most Sunni's claim that Abu Talib was a not a Muslim and quote some narrations as proof. What evidence is there to suggest that he was one?

Sayyed Mohammad Al-Musawi

Not most of Sunni Muslims but only the followers of Mu'awiya and Yazeed claim that Abu Talib was non Muslim. Many Sunni scholars have written books proofing the Faith of Abu Talib as a great believer in Islam like Ahmad Zaini Dahlan the Mufti of Makkah in his book (Asna al-Mataalib ) al-Barzanchi in Bughyat al-Talib, and al-Suyooti al-Shafi'ee in Bughyat al-Talib, and Muhammad Mu'een al-Hanafi al-Sindhi in his book ( Ithbaat Islam abi Talib) and ibn Abi Sayf al- mada'ini in his book (Akhbaar Abi Talib Wa Wildih) other scholars.

'The narrations claimed against Abu Talib are fabricated to please the anti Shia rulers. The scholars in Knowledge of Hadeeth have strong evidence against such narrations.

The Proohet Muhammad (SAWA) did not allow any Muslim lady to remain with her non Muslim husband including asking his own fostered daughter to leave her non Muslim husband, but he never asked Fatima Bint Asad , the great lady of faith who was called by him as (My mother) to leave her husband Abu Talib till the end of his life. This is itself is a concrete evidence that Abu Talib was a believer in Islam.

Wassalam.

Some Sunni's claim that verse 56 of Surah Qasas (28:56) and verse 113 of Sura Taubah (9:113) prove that Abu Talib died without faith in Islam. How do the Syiah understand the commentary of these two verses?

Abbas Di Palma

as salam alaikum

there is no direct reference in the above-mentioned verses about the religion of Abu Talib, neither to Abu Talib himself. The verse 28:56 is very general and says that Allah is the ultimate guide and that no one, even the Prophet, peace be upon him and his family, can guide the people if Allah doesn't wish. The verse 9:113 is also general and it is explained by its following verse (9:114) that talk about the prohibition to ask forgiveness for the polytheists, in particular it mentions the case of Ibrahim, peace be upon him, and Azar.

What made to conclude the majority of Sunni scholars that these verses refers to Abu Talib not being Muslim are some ahadith found in Bukhari and Muslim linking those verses to such opinion. There are other narrations and evidences to support the fact that Abu Talib was a Muslim: this is also an opinion held by a minority of Sunni scholars.

In conclusion, these two verses should firstly and foremost interpreted according to their apparent meaning avoiding solitary reports (akhbar ahad) which are contradictory. Then, to establish historical facts, other ways than tafsir by solitary reports should be taken into consideration in order to determine truth and valid knowledge.

With prayers for your success.